In case you’re not a Final Fantasy fan, there’s a bit of a hot topic spinning around in fan circles about the latest installment of the series, Final Fantasy XV. It pertains to the bonus dungeon, Pitioss Ruins, that can be found after the game is complete by taking your flying car over the mountains and landing on a pain in the ass small strip of land. From there you run up the hill and after the sun goes down you can enter the Ruins which has less to do with the rest of the game and more in common with games like VVVVVVVV or I Want To Be The Boshy joining forces with some insidious Little Big Planet levels. Precision jumps, instant death spikes, tons of bottomless pits, and plenty of puzzles. It’s a frustrating and yet suprisingly entertaining dungeon that had me less annoyed with each death and more so piecing together a solution or strategy.
However, the current “theory” or simply fan wank making the rounds right now is that this dungeon holds the key to understanding the entire game’s backstory and motivations for the villains.
To break it down simply, it posits that Ifrit, the second to last boss of the game, broke free of Titan’s imprisonment, ventured into the Underworld, traversed the Doomtrain to reach the afterlife, and freed the Goddess Eos who was locked away by the Astrals because she was pregnant with twin demi-god children (noted by the item the Genji Glove found in the statues belly button. Genji roughly translating to ‘Two Beginnings’.) These twin children would be the founding members of the House of Lucis, possibly Ardyn and Izunia (The Izunia thing is a WHOLE other rant), and would eventually give rise to Noctis. (If you want more detail, there is a great video by Final Fantasy Peasant that breaks the whole thing down here. It’s also where I got the lovely image at the top.)
At first glance, it’s a great idea. It explains why Ifrit turned against the other Astrals, Ardyn’s desire for revenge, why only the lineage of Lucis can use the Ring of the Lucii, and their connection to the Crystal. Damn. What a great theory. Boy is it clever.
I have a few problems with it though. (Shocker.)
A lot of the theory seems to be based heavily on Greek Mythology. No surprise there. The game itself draws heavily on Greek Mythology to tell its story especially when it comes to names and themes. However, the Pitioss Ruins theory goes beyond this and simply assumes at face value that if X happened with equivalent characters in the Greek myth, then the equivalent must be true in Final Fantasy XV. So things like “Eos was imprisoned for loving a mortal and having half-god children” is based solely on the idea that “It’s how an Olympian God would react” with no basis whatsoever in the mythology or story of Final Fantasy XV. There is zero evidence to back up the idea that the Astrals would be angry by this. This is just slapping in frog DNA to fill in the holes of your dino DNA and saying that it was always intended to be like that.
Secondly, the theory throws in concepts that are wholly foreign to the game as if they were just matter of fact things. For instance, the theory states quite plainly that Ifrit descended to the Underworld to find the Goddess Eos by riding Doomtrain. Okay. One, there is no “Underworld” ever mentioned in the game at any point as part of their mythology. Two, no where is the contraption in the Ruins called Doomtrain nor is the concept of Doomtrain ever mentioned let alone as the ‘Sole means of reaching the afterlife’ in Final Fantasy XV. This description from Doomtrain comes from other games, which is a bad practice since in no other Final Fantasy game is Bahamut a giant dude in a suit of dragon armor.
Finally, the Goddess Eos? The Goddess that is central to this entire theory? Not in the game. She’s not. Eos is the name of the world that the game takes place on. Beyond that it’s even more fan theory based on random comments made by developers. That the character in the logo is the ‘most important goddess’ despite never having a name and only appearing in the logo and one painting at the beginning (Oh, and after you beat the game it shows quite plainly who that sleeping figure is supposed to be, and she ain’t Eos.) So if there’s a super important goddess, and the world is called Eos, then that must be the goddess Eos right? Sure, why not. Except that nowhere is that backed up in the game. We know who all six Astrals are. We know that there were gods who left after creating the world and the Astrals but were never named. So how do we know this is a goddess? Well, mostly because this used to be based on the Fabula Nova Crystallis and in that there was a super important goddess named ‘Etro’ who was trapped in the ‘Unseen World’ (World of the Dead, Underworld.) But all of that lore was scrapped and only used as a template for ideas (Bhunivelze = Unknown Creator, Fal’Cie = Astrals, l’Cie = Lucii.)
So this theory is built on another theory and uses more theories to fill in the gaps. What’s actually canon to the game? That there’s a dungeon called of the Pitioss Ruins and there’s some statues in it one of which looks like Ifrit. That’s about it.
But what’s the problem, Vry? I hear you ask. It’s just a harmless fan theory, right? Well, yea and no. There are plenty of folks who are seeing this theory and turning around and shouting F#%& TABATA AND SQUARE ENIX FOR RUINING THIS GENIUS PLOT going along with the idea that if this had stayed Final Fantasy Versus XIII or that if Nomura had stayed on the project that this plot would have become fully fleshed out in the unknowable amount of time it would have taken to get finished (Don’t get me wrong, I like Nomura alright but the man is a hardcore creative and needs to some serious reining in if you want to put him in charge of a project or else he’ll just keep coming up with new ideas and trying to work them in).
So this theory is now being used as ‘Proof’ against the developers, and that’s where I felt like I should step up and use my corner of the web to try and remind folks that this is just a theory and one based on a LOT of conjecture. It explains a lot, but that’s fairly easy to do when you construct the entire argument from random bits and pieces of unrelated material. You can just as convincingly say that Eos was a Titan in Greek Mythology and Titan is an Astral, so Eos might be the mother of Titan as well. Which would make Noctis and Titan related, which would explain why they were mentally linked and the first Astral that Noctis forged a covenant with. See! It all fits! It must be true! Other than I pulled it out of my rump.
Fan Theories are great. But they are theories. They are not canon. They are not backdoors into the game developers’ minds. Need I bring the Game Theorists’ “Sans is Ness” Undertale/Earthbound theory? Great theory. So not canon.
But then why all the mysteries around the backstory of FFXV? I don’t know. Maybe because a lot of it wasn’t vitally important to the immediate situation. My own theory on that (HA!) is that it might be a leftover concept from the Versus XIII days when the game was described as portrayed the affairs of gods through the eyes of a mortal. Like war between the Astrals but only the given context of what a mere mortal would see or understand. Do I know for certain? Heck no. But hey… it fits, doesn’t it?
16 thoughts on “FFXV: Vry vs The Pit of Eos Theory”
You cannot deny the Rock of Ravatough pictures showing Ifrit’s horns and Eos’s wing and the crystal shape missing.
Can and will.
The Rock of Ravatogh being Eos & Ifrit’s bodies based on a “wing shaped peak” ie a point bit and the red curly bits being the horn? Yes, peaks are often shaped like wings. They tend to come to a pointed end. The horns thing is probably the most ridiculous because A) They don’t look at all like Ifrit’s horns. and B) There are similar blue strangly bits on the other side of the Disc. What are those? Ifrit’s toenails?
The “Crystal shape” is a oval-ish hole. The crystal is an oval rock. There’s a big oval shaped hole under the power plant! And blue shiny things! That’s where the crystal must be from, for they have the same rough shape and blue shiny things! That’s twice as much proof. (/sarcasm)
Finally, if the mountain IS Eos – the Goddess that is mentioned nowhere – then there’s even LESS of an excuse for the Goddess to be mentioned nowhere. She’s literally the biggest rock in Lucis. And no, I don’t buy the whole “She was imprisoned and thus was never mentioned” idea, when you have Ifrit still being prominently displayed as part of the pantheon after betraying the Gods, releasing the Starscourge, and according to this theory, freeing the imprisoned goddess that was stricken from all records.
As I said, it’s a nice theory and all. But it relies far too much on speculation and hole-filling for me. This is on par with EVP. Making sense out of noise.
Couple that with what Shiva says to Ifirt at the end of the game, as well as how Bahamut describes the crystal, the core of this theory has heavy proof.
Bahamut describes the Crystal as “the soul of a star”. Yup. That’s proof alright. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It can be INTERPRETED that way. Sure. But it can interpreted about a dozen other ways too. Hardly anything concrete.
Again, it comes back to “if I interpret X and Y in juuust the right way, then connect them with Z that I pulled from a unrelated source…” The pieces all fit because not one part of it is solid, thus can be molded together. It is the very definition of Headcanon. “These two characters were on screen together and didn’t kill each other! They’re my new OTP! Totes Canon!”
Though, I am curious what you are referring to with Shiva and Ifrit speaking to each other. I’ve seen the cutscene about a dozen times, and the only person she speaks to at the end is Noctis where she tells him to bring back the light.
No one is saying this is canon. All people are saying is there is proof to substantiate. There is actually more proof that this is truce versus proof that isn’t. I think your approach is too personal and should be a little more open minded. The reason there is this much speculation on this amazing plot is because of the fact that the way it’s told doesn’t nearly reciprocate the greatness of its potential. That being said, because how poorly it’s told, your reasonings for why it ISNT true hold just as much or as little merit as the theory itself does. I’m not saying the theory is right, but the images and dialogue hold more promise than your idea of just discarding it without thought.
See primal theory article for image regarding Shivas statements about Ifirt being the Pyrestarter and dying previously. And I would say the wing is a pretty good representation, while I would bend a little more
Your way regarding the horns and Crystal.
Also, the original thread creator has updated the Reddit forum claiming that Square Enix employees have confirmed some of the theory, and have posted information regarding dialogue with Ray Chase ( VA for Noctis) and his comments on the theory.
Yoshitaka Amano’s Big Bang Artwork also runs parallel with much of this.
” Pyreburner, a dead fire must burn no more. That heart of flame was turned to ash once. Tase again the chill wind of death.”: Probably should go through a 13th time to catch that…
These lines have no context within the game, yet Pitioss and The RoR give meaning to them.
If you compare Ifrit holding Eos in Amano’s Big Bang vs the RoR, it’s identical.
Also, the lock of hair on both Ifrit and Eos in the Big Bang artwork matches the crown Regis wears.
You said and I quote ” This is the very definition of headcanon ” How so? The OP of the thread states that it is a theory countless times. If they acknowledge it is a theory, how can you label them as slandering the developors with ” headcanon”? It’s only headcanon if people are trying to pass it off as canon, which the author of ” Pitioss Reveleations” is clearly not.
” Can and will”. Better luck next time. No wonder you hide under a pseudonym.
CASE CLOSED. Vry harder next time…..or whatever your name is.
This is why under qualified hacks like you have to create your own ” corner of the web “. So you can can slander else’s someone else’s words to make yourself look smart but all you’re doing is showing how you are unable to see someone else’s viewpoint. You clearly slandered perona77’s article even claiming things that weren’t true about their opinions and statements, all to make your headline look a little better. You’re not a journalist, but the meat market, stereotypical no job narcissist living in his parents basement trying to justify his existence through digital bullying.
So the Rock of Ravatough being Ifrit has been confirmed by Square. There is a loading screen that either loads too fast during main story or added for DLC soon, see FF peasants video, stating that When the 6 Astfals waged war Bahamut killed Ifrit and laid him on top of Ravatough. Vry harder.
You’ve been coming here over and over to a random blog on the corner of the internet to argue for a fan theory on a video game. And you still haven’t been able to refute the basic point of why the theory is dumb.
You’ve wasted your time and mine. You’re done.